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Monica Torres

Eng. Comp

Trang Phann

10/23/10

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Closing My Eyes as I Speak: An Argument for Ignoring Audience Author(s): Peter Elbow Source: College English, Vol. 49, No. 1 (Jan., 1987), pp. 50-69

Summary: The article “Closing My Eyes as I Speak” talks about benefits on ignoring the audience and how writers can improve their essays or writing. Elbow says that ignoring the audience can prevent writers block. He also says that when it comes to an audience we tend to get intimidated and make it hard on ourselves to go get our point across. He also says that sometimes our audience can help us, when we do think about the audience we think a lot more and of better things to say. This article has a lot of different views on writing and what will help you the most. Piagetian says that we should start out by being private and as we grow up we will become more social and will be able to write and talk more efficiently, while Vygotskian says we should start out social and then when we become older it will be easier to voice ourselves. There are also different views about writer base prose and reader base prose. One claims that it is best to use one than the other and vice versa. Reader base prose focuses on the reader and helps the reader fully understand, while writer base prose does the opposite. It’s all about the writing and it allows the writer to write about anything, it is all clear to the writer.

Q: Is it good to ignore the audience? Which do you prefer writer or reader base prose?

Answer: I personally think it is best to ignore the audience because I tend to freak out in front of them. I get embarrassed and forget what I’m talking about and I get off track from what I’m talking about. If I were to ignore them I think I would do a lot better because I wouldn’t feel so pressured and awkward in front of them. I prefer both writer and reader base prose because I can benefit from both. I like that writer base prose focuses on me and it doesn’t matter if the readers understand it. Writer base prose lets the writer talk or writer about anything the feel comfortable writing about, the can add as much detail as they want and it all makes sense to them. On the other hand, reader base focuses on the reader by making sure the reader understand what it is the writer is talking about.

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Brie Fenton Yesenia Ontiveros

ENG 1301.28

Trang Phan

oct. 20, 2010


Closing My Eyes as I Speak: An Argument for Ignoring Audience

Elbow, Peter. "Closing My Eyes as I Speak: An Argument for Ignoring Audience." College English 49.1 (1987): 50-69. Print.

Awareness of the audience can often cause incomplete thoughts and unclear writing. Elbow argues that if we ignore the audience we will end up with better writing in the end. It starts out weak but leads to better revisions. There are two different types of audiences: enabling and inhibiting. Enabling audiences cause us to think of better and more coherent things as we write and our piece turns out structured. We come up with ideas we did not know we had and we feel smart. It is helpful to keep these audiences in mind from the start. Inhibiting audiences block our writing. We feel dumb and can’t find our words or thoughts. When they are no longer pressuring us, all our thoughts come rushing back.
If we are constantly aware of the audience, were only thinking about how they will criticize our writing, we are not focusing. During the first stages of writing, if we ignore the audience, our words will be more true and clear. Teaching students how to realize when audience awareness is getting in their way, will help avoid overload and stressing. We can manipulate our thoughts and end up with better, developed writing than we would have had in the first place. Ignoring the audiences leads to stronger, more expressive and descriptive writing.

Question
The author says: “when attention to audience causes an overload, start out by ignoring them while you attend to your thinking; after you work out your thinking, turn your attention to audience” (p.53). How could you know when it’s overloaded?
Response
Many people have arguments about ignoring the audience. This method doesn’t not mean that you as the speaker have to block out the audience. In the article it mentions that when you feel over load to just ignore the audience. I really don’t think the author meant this as in were we forget about them and make no eye contact to them. The word “overload” I interpretation is; when we as the speaker feel nervous, and tempts to forget the subject. But the author ( Peter Elbow) of “ Closing My Eyes as I Speak” is intentions were not to tell us to ignore our audience but to not pay as much attention. I as the writer I tend to get nervous when I speak in front of a audience, what I do is tend to ignore the audience by simply not looking at them in the eyes, and think about something else. I also try not to memorize a speech because I tend to forget it.

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Vanessa Magdaleno & Mario A. Garcia
Eng. 1301
Tran Phan
10/16/10

Closing My Eyes as I Speak

SUMMARY:

Closing My Eyes as I Speak: An Argument for Ignoring Audience, Peter Elbow, College English, Vol. 49, No. 1 (Jan., 1987), pp. 50-69, National Council of Teachers of English, http://www.jstor.org/stable/377789,


This article tells us that an audience can be perceived as a force field or barrier; one that invites us or one that confuses or inhibits us. These are only some of the types of audiences that can be perceived in order to make our writing better. We can choose to either ignore or choose an audience. When we choose an audience, in our mind that audience is a great example of the people that you can impress with what you know, because they have a limited knowledge compared to yours. When you ignore your audience, this leads to something that Lind Flower would, call Writer-based Prose writing, which will lead to weak writing altogether. Sometimes when you ignore the wrong type of audience you will worry about how they will critique your writing because” we [find] them intimidating” (51), and so we are very defensive with our writing in order to please that intimidating person and therefore try and not be criticized as much as we would if we we’re comfortable with our writing. There is also an audience that we completely ignore in order to not go off track the topic and be able to stay focused on the writing rather than the readers. Having an audience is a great way to help shape your writing in a creative way.


QUESTION:
Why would writer-based prose be considered better than reader based prose? What are the negative and positive points about both?


RESPONSE:
Sometimes we write for an audience. Sometimes we write for ourselves. Sometimes we write just to simply explore our ideas. Most times, as writers, we need to be able to let out our ideas without the inhibiting factor of someone looking over our shoulder and pinpointing all of our mistakes. Sometimes the ideas in our head might be considered dumb, and irrelevant to a topic, but we need the security of knowing that it’s okay to explore such ideas. This is writer based prose.
I catch myself thinking that writer based prose is better because to me, it means writing for myself. Writer based prose occurs more often than reader based prose. It occurs while we are planning an essay. It allows the opportunity to put our own thoughts, emotions, and experiences into a topic. Using writer based prose is like putting a part of you into a composition.
However, Linda Flower states that ineffective writers use writer based prose. She says that people who use writer based prose are not concerned about the reader and the points that are made do not relate to each other. Essays that are written through writer based prose are sometimes understood as a language “private” to the writer.
The preference on what is better between reader and writer based prose is somewhat dependent on the writer. Some writers prefer to use reader based prose because it keeps the audience in mind. It is important to keep the audiences’ attitude toward your topic in mind.
After analyzing articles that we have covered, I have come to the conclusion that writer based prose is just as effective as reader based prose. Both need to be occurring when composing. However, they need to be done in the right way so that you are keeping the reader in mind, as well as letting yourself shine through in a paper.

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Hiram Lopez
ENG1301.28
Trang Phan
10-18-10
Closing My Eyes as I Speak: An Argument for Ignoring Audience Summary
Peter Elbow. “Closing My Eyes as I Speak: An Argument for Ignoring Audience” College English, Vol. 49, No. 1(Jan., 1987), pp 50-69

In the article “Closing My Eyes as I Speak: An Argument for Ignoring Audience,” Peter Elbow focused on the fact that when we talk to a person or a group we struggle to find words because we are so overwhelmed by their presence and it makes it hard for us to get our point across, he argues that” writing without audience awareness is not meant to undermine the many good reasons for writing with audience awareness.” (50) For example we easily neglect the audience because we would write in solitude, and that students have a weak sense of writing communication because they have only written to teachers in a school setting. He also made a claim that writer-based prose was sometimes better than reader-based prose. He describes that when writers are aware of the audience, it may disrupt their thinking. So, he suggests for teachers to teach them in a desert island mode, in order for the teachers to help their students by helping to trust and believe in their writing.
Question:
Why is it good to block out the audience at times?
Response:
I think it is important to block out the audience at times because an audience can overwhelm someone so much that they can often forget what they are trying to say. It goes the same way when we write alone in our rooms; we often have to write in writer-based prose so we can get our ideas out the way we understand them. It’s not that we should never think of the audience. The question is when. “An audience is a field of force.”(51) It all comes down to what kind of audience we have. There are two types of audiences an inviting or enabling, and inhibiting. The inviting and enabling audience which is like talking to the perfect listener they make us feel smart and allow us to come up with ideas we didn’t know we had. While the inhibiting audience makes us feel dumb and make it hard for us to find words or thoughts. So, it all comes down to the audience we have at hand they contribute to the ways we write. It can be good to block them out at times to write better papers.

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Alyssa Vasquez

ENG 1301.28

Instructor: Trang Phan

10/20/10

Closing My Eyes as I Speak: An Argument for Ignoring Audience

Peter Elbow. “Closing My Eyes as I Speak: An Argument for Ignoring Audience”. College English, Vol. 41, No. 1 (Sep., 1979), pp. 19-37
Summary:
In the article “Closing My Eyes as I Speak”, Peter Elbow talks about the benefits of ignoring the audience. For some people an audience can sometimes help out the speaker but most of the time an audience can intimidate the speaker and block or disrupt their writing process. To prevent writer’s block, Elbow also claims ignoring the audience in these early stages of the writing process can ultimately result in better writing. Writing that is "writer-based" instead of "reader-based," according to Elbow, is more natural, authentic, and trustworthy. Elbow then discusses the role of audience awareness from two models of cognitive development: the Piagetian (individual psychology) and the Vygotskian (social psychology). Both models have explanations and remedies for writing that is "too thin." The Piagetian model claims that language begins as a private act and as we mature, we learn to become more social, to "decenter." The solution for such writing, says the Piagetians, is to "think more about the audience." The Vygotskian model, on the other hand, states that language begins as a social act and as we mature, we learn to better hear our own voices for ourselves.
Question: What does the author mean by “the effect of audience awareness is somewhere between the two extremes: the awareness disturbs or disrupts our writing and thinking without completely blocking it” (p.51-52)?
Response:
I agree with Elbow on all accounts. The awareness of an audience can be intimidating and block our thoughts during the writing process, thus making it difficult to create a great draft. Speaking up is sometimes really difficult if we think of people. The same goes in writing. It is sometimes hard to put our ideas in words, thinking what should be written first, what should be included, and what should not be included. Having rough draft can really help us get the best result. Pouring out all the ideas first and then put them in place. Audience is one of the things that keep us from speaking up our ideas. When I have a topic to write about, I usually try to relate to it and that makes me write in writer based prose, but when it’s like a research paper I try to write in reader based prose because I have to think of what my teacher is going to want to read and see in my paper. It’s very difficult to think and write when I have an audience to think about, it just blocks me but at the same time I’m trying to write in reader and writer based prose, because I believe it’s better to be equal because an audience will always be available.

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Lisa Marie Lopez
Rachel Reyna

Ms. Trang
English 1301
October 17, 2010

Closing My Eyes as I Speak: An Argument for Ignoring Audience Author(s): Peter Elbow Source: College English, Vol. 49, No. 1 (Jan., 1987), pp. 50-69 Published by: National Council of Teachers of English
Summary: “Closing My Eyes as I Speak” is an article that speaks of the things writers do that could either make their essays good or bad. John Ashberry states that, “Very often people don’t listen to you when you speak to them. It’s only when you talk to yourself that they prick up their ears.” The author goes on by explaining the quote and says that writers tend to speak to themselves leading the readers to stray from the subject, or what they are reading, meaning that there is not much of an interest found in the reader because the writer goes off brainstorming to where the writer is the only person who understands what is going on. The article later describes this way of writing as writers based prose, which is where the writer benefits for himself. He goes on talking about how reader and writers based prose could help benefit the writer. Writer based prose is basically a tool the writer uses to only hear his/her own voice and blocks out the audience. The author explains that writers based prose is “unclear” and a “complete mess”. Reader’s based prose is explained as a method that could also create unclear and unsaid words. In this process, the writer thinks too much of the audience, and it is hard for them to speak their mind. The article is mainly about cognitive learning.
Question: What method would you use when writing your essay? Would it be reader base prose, or writer base prose?
My opinion is that I would rather use writer base prose because, I believe if writer based prose is used, your essay will be unique and unlike any other. I tend to use writer base prose because I have the mentality where I don’t tend to follow or connect with the reader. Each of us as individuals can’t always connect with one another. We all are different in our own ways. Not all of us have the same stories to tell or the same opinions. I could base my essay on pickles and the reader might not connect with me because the reader hates pickles. Writers can’t always satisfy the readers. If no one used writers based prose, then there would be no individuality or any characteristics that would separate us from the rest of the world. Some readers might actually be able to understand what you have written because they have been there, or they have experienced what the writer has experienced before. The writer could write about some kind of romance novel and a child could read it and not interpret what he/she just read. Writer base prose could benefit writers in many ways, not only by showing how artistic they are, but by sharing their experiences to the world and maybe create a change.

Darryl Wolf
English 1301.28
Trang Phan
10/12/2010

Writer-Based Prose: A Cognitive Basis for Problems in Writing

Linda Flower."Writer-Based Prose: A Cognitive Basis for Problems in Writing". College Englis, Vol. 41, No. 1(Sep. 1979), pp. 19-37.

Summary: This article is on the discussion of Writer Based-Prose and Reader Based-Prose. The author explains and compares their differences and how it may affect both the reader and the writer. With writer based prose, the writer will write based on their own thoughts and what makes sense to them. With this perspective, the writer may have a set premonition of what their own felt sense; however the reader may not understand their conclusive point. For instance, the writer; whom is trying to get their point across, may be unable to be logical for the reader, whereas it could be obscure to mind of the writer. In reader based prose, the mind of the reader reflects the purpose of what the writer envisions so it may cause a conflict among to the reader because they he or she wouldn’t be able to interpret what the writer is trying to explain.

Question: What is Writer-Based Prose? How does it affect our writing?

Response:

As a student, I like to write while I keep an open door for ideas. I like to create a brainstorm and explore my mind hoping to create a well written and fluid essay. Evidently, I just go with the flow of creating an essay that is understandable to my likings. Since writer-based prose is somewhat of a natural thing to writers, we need must be able to acknowledge this concept and develop the necessary skills. Enabling the technique to shape our ideas into a well written context of words, and that will allow us to communicate with our ideas in self thought. Ineffective writers, as those who produce “writer-based prose” are those kind of writers who do not consider the reader while developing a brainstorm or writing “freely”. I believe this concept would better the writer has it would help him or help think outside the box and connect with the reader in a more aqueous or sophisticated way.

Monica Torres, Emily Perez
Eng. 1301.28
Instructor: Trang Phan
9/26/10

Writer-Based Prose: A Cognitive Basis for Problems in Writing
Summary:
Linda Flower. “Writer-Based Prose: A Cognitive Basis for Problems in Writing”. College English, Vol. 41, No. 1.(1979), pp. 19-37
The article goes in to brief details about the differences between Writer-based and Reader-based prose. When using writer-based prose the readers aren’t kept in mind because it mainly focuses on the writer, making the text difficult for the reader to understand. A writer using this method is only capable of getting their point across best explained by in their mind. These writers don’t seem to put much thought in the readers and automatically assume they understand what they’re trying to say. In the article they experimented on children as they attempted to tell a story with no verbal action. Their own body language made total sense to the child but the audience couldn’t put the pieces together. These are undeveloped ideas which occur when using writer-based prose. The functional system seems to be the mind manipulating the writers into creating some sort of meaning for every statement in their mind, causing the statement to make sense to them and not to others. When using sematic, episodic, and short term memory it benefits the writer in thinking about the audience and prevents the readers from getting lost. They briefly explain what reader base prosed is, reader base prose is for the reader. The writer writes for the reader instead of him or herself, so then the reader understands the point the writer is trying to get across.
Q: Do you think Writer-Base prose is good for a person in particular? Why or why not?
A: I think it’s both good and bad. Good because the writer expresses what it is that’s going on in their head. Writer-base prose reflects the purpose of what the writer is writing about. Everything the writer explains all makes sense in their head, every single detail. Also, another reason why I think it’s good is that it helps the writer with creativity. The writer can talk about anything they choose to, they can add exquisite details and just go on about the story and in their head it will all make sense. That’s where the down fall of writer-base prose comes in. The writer writes about whatever they want but it only makes sense to them. The reader has no idea what he or she has just read and if they do it’s still a little confusing to them. The writer is only using terminology that makes perfect sense to them. If the writer were to re-read the statement they have just written it would still make complete sense. Therefore to prevent this from happening the writer should allow other peers to read the statement and revise the passage to make it more understandable.

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Alyssa Vasquez

Ashley Favata

Kristen Garcia

ENG 1301.28

Instructor: Trang Phan

10/2/10

Writer-Based Prose: A cognitive Basis for Problems in Writing

Linda Flower. “Writer-Based Prose: A Cognitive Basis for Problems in Writing”. College

English, Vol. 41, No. 1. (1979), pp. 19-37

Summary:

Flower’s article states that ineffective writers often produce “writer-based prose.” Writer-based prose is used as a thinking process but of what we like to express because we are writing based on our experiences. When writing based on our own thoughts and feelings that we consider, this is called egocentric because we only consider on what we think and feel about on certain things, and never consider the readers perspective, just as long as we understand what we are trying to say but have no consideration if the reader is going to understand it. “The style of Writher-Based prose also has its own logic. Its two main stylistic features grow out of the private nature of interior monologue, that is, of writing which is primarily a record or expression of the writer’s flow of thought” (27). We need to take the readers-based prose into consideration because we are not just writing for us but for readers to read, even though writer-based prose comes naturally to us because we recognize its ties to our episodic memories. “In the best of all possible worlds, good writers strive for Reader-Based prose from the very beginning: they retrieve and organize information within the framework of a reader/writer contract” (14).

Question: What is Writer-Based Prose? How does it affect our writing?

Response:

Linda Flower suggests that effective writers need to do more than just relay their own interpretation or expression of some concept. Ineffective writers, those who produce “writer-based prose” are those writers who do not consider the reader. This article leads me to believe that as students we’ve been taught to write the five paragraph essay but we were rarely taught to write for a reader, but instead on a topic that we intend to write based on our own experiences. This is creates and egocentric because we only write what we understand and communicate with our selves but not with the reader. As a student, I write while exploring ideas in my mind to create a well written essay, but mostly I never have the reader in mind, so I just go with the flow of creating an essay that is understandable and hopefully good enough to catch the reader’s attention. Since writer-based prose is a natural thing to all writers, we need to learn to work with our ideas before writing to help write a reader-based prose. As we develop the skills to write a reader-based prose, it would help us communicate our ideas better to the reader, enough to prove our point in the writing.